Mono Black Discard

Hank_Scorpio · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 6

I saw a small discussion on a form of this deck in the 1.5 section, but as I don't play competitively, I figured I'd better post here. My current decklist i'm running is:

Creatures

Hypnotic Specter x 4
Will-O'-The-Wisp x 4
Nezumi Shortfang x 4

Mana

Dark Ritual x3

Artifacts

The Rack x4

Discard

Cry of Contrition x4
Hymn to Tourach x4
Funeral Charm x4

Destroy

Soul Reap x4 (i don't play anyone with green...yet...i'd prolly swap these for terror)
Unmake x4 (i don't like these with CoC but they're fun/effective creature kill)

Land

Swamp x 21

60 cards. In theory I intend to empty my opponents hand and tick them to death with racks and Nezumi while controlling their creatures and mitigating damage with wisps. In practice, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Fast creatures can be troublesome (though i like to CoC funeral charm weenies), and many times as I'm top decking with my opponent, I end up hitting land pockets which do not allow me to capitalize on the situation (and i hate drawing my dark rituals while top decking >.<). Has anyone perfected this type of deck, or have any suggestions on some improvements? Thank you in advance!

Hank

R3wind · Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 970

I really think that you need Dark Confidant and maybe Black Knight. Bob gets you over land pockets and Black Knight slips past Swords to Plowshares, the most played removal in 1.5. Tombstalker is also very good if you don't play Bob as a finisher. Fetchlands are also very good to thin your deck.

As for you spell choices. You really need Thoughtsieze, Cabal Therapy, and Duress. All of them are better then Cry. Though I do admit that Cry and Cabal Therapy have a great interaction together.

MaksG7 · Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 13

Cry and Cabal Therapy have a good interaction together when you have creatures you want to sack... This does doesn't really have that.

I would suggest dipping into white. You get Gerarrad's verdict, StP, as well as the possibility of combining flagstones with smallpox. Personally I do not think that particular combination works but it is something to try potentially.

As is I would say Play seize, cabal theray, gerrard' verdict and obviously hymn. That should give you a consistent discard base.

Creature wize, you obviously need bob as you need to be able to reap card advantage and be active when you opponent is topdecking.

bob,
hippy,
tombstalker (x2 only with bob).

I would also cut the rack as when I played the deck, it seemed very subpar and generally bad in most cases.

To deal with creatures you obviosly have 4 StP as well as vinicates if you are in white.

4 sinkholes is also a must.

So far the deck starts looking like this:

Thougtseize x4
Cabal Therapy x4
Verdict x4
Hymn x4

Hippy x4
Dark Conidant x4
Tombstalker x2

StP x4
Vindicate x4
Sinkhole x4

That is 38 cards and a bit much considering you still want to fit in dark rituals and perhaps some card draw.

Again the lack of creatures to sack to Cabal is pronounced so cutting 2 cabals brings the deck to 36 cards. Taking out 1 verdict will brin us to 35 cards and cut down on the discard which may be less useful if drawn in large amounts.

4 dark rituals can now make their way into the deck bringing up the total non land cards to 39.

Now add 21 lands (4 wastelands is the obvious must) and it seems a little better than before.

Thougtseize x4
Cabal Therapy x2
Verdict x3
Hymn x4

Hippy x4
Dark Conidant x4
Tombstalker x2

StP x4
Vindicate x4
Sinkhole x4
Dark ritual x4

4 wastelands
8 black/white feteches
4 duals
5 plains/swamps

This isnt really MONO BLACK but it works fairly well. Also adding green gives you goyfs and dorans to make the clock a LOT faster as well as birds to get a fast start and get some more cabal therapy targets in there.

Have fun testing,
Cheers

R3wind · Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 970

Joltun Grunt would be nice also. Even better then Tombstalker I would think.

Hank_Scorpio · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 6

Thank you for the prompt well thought out responses. As it stands I am not married to mono black, I just don't really have access to any fancy pants lands ^.^ I am however quite fond of the racks. I definitely want that to be one of the primary mechanics of the deck. Removing the opponents hand, and keeping their hand empty while racks tick them away. What I'd like to do is empty their hand fast, control what they manage to get on the board, out draw them on the top deck and watch them tick away to doom. Is this just a foolish pipe dream? Bobs and Cabal Therapy definitely look hot. Really hot...

Hank

Hank_Scorpio · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 6

It does seem like an aggro deck is going to be tears still though, even running something like that w/b list. Plus I'm concerned about that list as it has very few sources of damage. Hence why I think racks (and i <3 nezumi) need to stay. Maybe I could just delve deeper into creature control with some drawing capability. Empty hands, top deck, with some extra draw, and control creatures?

Hank

R3wind · Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 970

Well you really only need about 9-10 discard effects to make the deck run.

4 Thoughtsieze, Duress, Cabal Therapy
4 Hymm
2-3 Thoughtsieze, Duress, Cabal Therapy

The point is to disrutp the game plan not to "empty their hand" Also having a minor mana disruption plan like Winter Orb, Wasteland, or Sinkhole helps your plan. Mox Diamond or Chrome Mox give you a tempo advantage also. Moxen also are very good with Winter Orb.

You need answers to things that they may play. Good answers include; Deed, Needle, Vindicate, Swords to Plowshares, Being able to tutor for answers is also very nice.

You need some Beaters,

4 Hippie
4 Bob
4 Goyf
3 Joltun Grunt

Something to give your beaters to carry like Jitte or Sword of Fire and Ice would be good as a one or two of.

On your side you need things like, Pithing Needle or Thorn of Amethist. Some type of mass removal may be useful vs Goblins and other aggro decks that don't care about your mana disruption. You are mostly going to do well vs Control and combo decks so you may not need very much on the side for them. Life gain effects will be good for the burn matchup.

IDav · Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 16

Maybe try Plague Sliver, Nantuko Husk, Catacomb Dragon or Nightmare as beaters.
Diabolic Edicts good removal.
Demonic Tutors useful.
Maybe consider Drain Life, Death Grasp or similar.

I agree with previous post that The Rack should go.
For the same reason Megrim doesn't work - the discard should disrupt their game plan sufficiently for you to prevail, its better to hit them for 5 a turn off a big creature than ping them for a couple with Megrim or The Rack.

Vedrfolner · Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 1435

The game plan where you discard their hand and use The Rack as a win condition does not work. It would require too much discard in the deck.

However, you can create a sort of soft-lock with The Rack if you have a powerful win condition out there that they need to use resources in order to deal with. They are then caught in a dilemma: either deal with the win condition and continue to take damage from The Rack, or save up cards to dodge The Rack while the win condition continues to deal damage to them. Very rarely will they be able to do both at that stage of the game.

Every game where The Rack is dealing damage and both players are sitting there with few or no cards in hand are actually _races_. Both players are in topdeck mode and there is often very little time to lose. If you build the deck so that it is able to race efficiently as well as disrupt the opponent's hand, and make sure that every topdeck matters, The Rack can be quite powerful.

In your deck, you should have Wheel of Torture in there as well as The Rack. And you should run Smallpox.

Hank_Scorpio · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 6

Thank you again for the responses. Vedrfolner summed it up perfectly. By turn 3, my games become a race of top decking. With Nezumi and the Rack, I have 8 rack sources. I have switched in wheel of torture at times for the rituals with mixed results, not sure what else to swap them in for. I enjoy the slow brooding pace of the deck, it kind of has this element of inevitability to it when it works. Any suggestions on a win condition that would work well in conjunction with the rack?

I did actually have drain lifes in for the unmakes, but as I ended up having to use them as creature removal most of the time, they were not very mana efficient.

Any good examples of a deck that races well, so I can perhaps study it for some ideas? ^.^

Hank