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Forums of Magic-League: Free Online Magic: the Gathering Play with Apprentice and Magic Workstation; casual or tournament play.
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R_Bastardsen
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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some of you guys are really good 'splainers, thanks.
I like the Gilt-Leaf Palace anecdote. |
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Vedrfolner
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1438
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Yahveh wrote: | | Jorbes wrote: | | Vedrfolner wrote: | | When the opponent has announced that he wants to go to his End of Turn step, you can play Turn to Mist and the creature will come back that turn. The opponent cannot "go back" to his main phase playing sorceries any more than he can attack again after announcing attack phase and you tap him out in response with Cryptic Command. Once he announces the End Step, he can only play instants. |
Uhm.. if the active player announces the End Step and you want to play something in the 2nd main phase (or even any other phase that hasn't been agreed on to have ended), wouldn't the active player also remain in the 2nd main phase?
Or would the 'turn to mist' player be in the 2nd main phase with the active player being in the end of turn step? Is that even possible? |
The bolded part is correct.
A phase ends when the stack is empty and all players pass priority consecutively. If player A is the active player and wishes to go from his 2nd main to the end step he passes priority to player B. If player B plays a spell or ability player A can respond. Once the spell has resolved then player A is still in his 2nd main and has priority after the spell has resolved as both players have not passed priority yet. Player A is able to play any spell or land he normally would in his second main phase or can pass priority again in an attempt to end it.
As for the OP, "At eot" effects are put on the stack at the beginning of the EOT step whereas "until eot" effects last until the cleanup step which is why "At eot" effects played in the eot step don't occur until the end of the next turn while "until eot" effects only last until the end of the turn they were cast, even if cast in the eot step.
Hopefully that can be comprehended. |
But playing something in response to the active player announcing change of phase does not stop the phase from changing! This means that if you say "I want to attack" and the opponent casts Cryptic Command to tap all your creatures, you can let it resolve, then play a hasted creature and say "I want to attack" again.
You can't do that.
Once the active player ends his second main phase, you can respond with an instant before the phase changes, thus getting your Turn to Misted creature back AT the beginning of the End Turn phase. He can of course respond to Turn to Mist. But he can not play sorceries because once Turn to Mist has resolved and the stack is empty - you pass priority and then the phase changes. |
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DaveK
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| R_Bastardsen wrote: | some of you guys are really good 'splainers, thanks.
I like the Gilt-Leaf Palace anecdote. |
Secluded Glen. |
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Jorbes
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 296
Location: Netherland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Vedrfolner wrote: | | See above |
Uhm, If I play something in the 2nd main phase of my opponent and it resolves (or not) and the stack becomes empty, then my opponent receives priority in the 2nd main phase. After we then both pass prio, we go to the end phase.
It takes more than a player saying a phase has ended to actually end the phase. |
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nico
Administrator
Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 837
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Vedrfolner wrote: |
But playing something in response to the active player announcing change of phase does not stop the phase from changing! This means that if you say "I want to attack" and the opponent casts Cryptic Command to tap all your creatures, you can let it resolve, then play a hasted creature and say "I want to attack" again.
You can't do that.
Once the active player ends his second main phase, you can respond with an instant before the phase changes, thus getting your Turn to Misted creature back AT the beginning of the End Turn phase. He can of course respond to Turn to Mist. But he can not play sorceries because once Turn to Mist has resolved and the stack is empty - you pass priority and then the phase changes. |
You CAN do what you described, when the one who plays the cryptic command is doing things the wrong way.When you look at the turn structure carefully, you will see there is a beginning of combat step, in wich both players receive priority before attakers are declared:
| magic comprehensive rulebook wrote: |
307. Beginning of Combat Step
307.1. As the beginning of combat step begins, any abilities that trigger at the beginning of combat go on the stack. (See rule 410, ?Handling Triggered Abilities.?) Then the active player gets priority and players may play spells and abilities.
308. Declare Attackers Step
308.1. As the declare attackers step begins, the active player declares attackers. This game action doesn?t use the stack. If the defending player controls any planeswalkers, or the game allows the active player to attack multiple other players, he or she declares which player or planeswalker each creature is attacking. Effects from a creature that refer to a defending player refer only to the defending player it?s attacking (if it?s attacking a player) or the controller of the planeswalker it?s attacking (if it?s attacking a planeswalker). Then any abilities that triggered on attackers being declared go on the stack. (See rule 410, ?Handling Triggered Abilities.?) Then the active player gets priority and players may play spells and abilities. |
So, if the non-active player handles things the right way, he will wait till his opponent anounces he wants to attack. The non active player wil then have to say that before anouncing attackers, during beginning of combat, he wants to play his cryptic command and tap the creatures.
The active player will also receive priority, and even after the command has resolved he has the opportunity to play instants and abilities before declaring attackers, so he might want to play a flashy hasted creature by then.
If, however, the non-active player anounces his command before the beginning of combat, you still are in his main phase, and at that moment the active player still gets the chance to play any creature or sorcery.
Greetz Nico |
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Vedrfolner
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1438
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| hmm missed that 307 then. Thanks. |
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R_Bastardsen
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| There are really a lot of good moves you can make when you know the phases well. I've thought about taking my MTG straight-edge and laying out the phases on the white side for the benefit of people I'm teaching the game, and also as a reminder for myself. |
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