by cmc on 2009-11-19 20:06 EDT

3 Survival of the Fittest

GG

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by Pikanso on 2009-11-19 22:04 EDT

LOL
no squee in Survival ??

No Warchief in gobbo ???

Gj manachuel

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by ChristPunchr on 2009-11-20 02:12 EDT

Nice. People with no understanding of survival rock. Not too surprising though.

First of all: horror offers far more for a single slot than Squee requires survival to be in play and is completely fucking useless after that. Horror can win games that are stale because of board control. Whenever a creature dies, if you use it properly, you will get one to replace it. It invites errors by making an opponent posture to get horror stuck in the gy and potentially waste removal or forget about something else.

Second, survival rock is not nearly as reliant on survival as other survival builds. You two clearly managed to miss how small the array of bullet creatures in the deck is. Generally, you will activate the survival to get a horror into the graveyard and then a genesis. Following that you fetch some bullet and you are basically done with it. If your opponent doesn't deal with it, that puts you in a better position, but it isn't really a big deal if survival gets axed because by the time that happens, you have already got what you need out of it. If it gets countered from you trying to play it early, that means that with a good survival rock player probably used it as a hymn to tourach or two mana duress to set something else up. It is very easy to find a survival with tops and shuffle effects and eternal witnesses. Early survival aren't generally important either because the genesis engine requires a fair amount of mana anyway.

Anyway, survival is a great card in the deck, but the deck still has similar chances of winning without it. All no survival on the table means is that you lose easy access to a fairly small number of situational cards.

With that said; I run four in my build, but I always contemplate removing one initially when I am trying to add something else to the deck because I tend to see survival way more often than I need it over the course of the game, but I have never made big enough changes to my build to get around to removing one. Survival basically has the same function that the vampiric tutors had in the old BGu Rock decks of extended before they rotated out...except survival is a bit more narrow regarding finding hosers and finds answers instead.

Either way, people should actually think about the deck that they make any broad assumptions, though the misconception that survival is really important has won me a lot of games...wasted pithing needles, gripped instead of deeds etc etc.

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by ChristPunchr on 2009-11-20 02:15 EDT

I'll admit though: I don't get the single bird at all. I must be missing something.

I run a more boring build that has four of almost everything and has a few therapies mained.

Edit: That goblins deck is crazy.

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by SteveMan on 2009-11-20 05:53 EDT

Single Bird is to help against mana screw / disruption

I love the URg Goblin deck. You see that sideboard? That's where Tarmogoyfs belong :)

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by shtivis on 2009-11-20 07:02 EDT

i netdeck the build half a hour before the trial, i played with it one match, and i started the trial.
i didnt played legacy for a year (from the time that goyf-treshold was my deck).

it's a good deck. walking on the line of aggro and control. i really like this kind of decks.

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by manachuel on 2009-11-20 08:14 EDT

@Pikanso: I should play my creatures using the vial so warchief is not so important. I think a +1+1 bonus is more important than a mana cost bonus.

I built the sideboard in 30 seconds and the only card I knew I was going to play was tarmogoyf. Krosan grip is also good, but my sb was conditioned by my missbuilt, i think i should have played spell snare instead of fire//ice. I just can't destroy a tarmogoyf -.-

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by ChristPunchr on 2009-11-20 12:16 EDT

Hmmm on the bird as a means of stopping disruption. I've never had any problems with basics and for StPs. More basics helps me scoff at geddon stax and other decks that attack non-basics too, which is nice.

At least the one bird makes sense to me though.

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by cmc on 2009-11-20 16:30 EDT

by ChristPunchr on 2009-11-19 23:12 PST
survival rock is not nearly as reliant on survival as other survival builds. Generally, you will activate the survival to get a horror into the graveyard and then a genesis. Following that you fetch some bullet and you are basically done with it.

Good luck doing that without a survival in play, at which point the deck just becomes a bad rock deck.

by ChristPunchr on 2009-11-19 23:12 PST
Anyway, survival is a great card in the deck, but the deck still has similar chances of winning without it.

You honestly expect people to believe that the deck has the same chance of winning without the genesis engine running as when it does? lol.

Either way, people should actually think before they make broad assumptions, though the misconception that 3 survivals is right in the deck is really important and has won me a lot of games............

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by usuck on 2009-11-20 17:12 EDT

@cmc: The deck is just too slow to run 4 SotF. You rarely want to drop it on turn 2 or turn 3 because you will usually have more important things to do. So you will have plenty of time to draw either SotF or Top.

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by cmc on 2009-11-20 18:15 EDT

That doesn't remove the fact that you need it to resolve/stick, in which case you want redundant copies.

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by usuck on 2009-11-20 19:18 EDT

no you dont need it

you win many games without it

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by cmc on 2009-11-20 20:14 EDT

you're better off playing a real rock deck if you don't plan on sticking survival, then you'll win many more games.

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by usuck on 2009-11-20 21:18 EDT

but apparantly less trials and tournaments?

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by ChristPunchr on 2009-11-20 22:07 EDT

How much have you played the deck, Cmc? I spent months playing it. I think I know how it works. When you consider the prevalence of graveyard removal do you really think the deck is THAT reliant on genesis...really? I typed the word "similar" in. You seem to be literate, so how did you miss that?

I could go on and on, but I'd rather just link a primer and you can appreciate your ignorance on your own and argue about legacy on a site that is mostly frequented by actual legacy players rather than standard format players who got a wild hair up their ass.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13030

Enjoy.

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by cmc on 2009-11-20 23:46 EDT

BabyBlue: it's not like m-l has a realistic legacy metagame anyway.

ChristPunchr: I've played the deck enough to The deck is 'that' reliant on genesis if it's trying to be different from any other rock deck. Take away the genesis and you're just playing a rock deck with random 1 ofs.
Even the AMAZING WEBSITE WITH REAL LEGACY PLAYERS that you linked to agrees. From the link: "Genesis: This card is the reason there is survival in this deck". Although then your primer begins to talk about testing on mwsplay, which is hilarious.

I've played legacy for a few years now, but feel free to assume I'm just a 'standard format player who knows nothing' because I disagree with you.

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by ChristPunchr on 2009-11-21 01:41 EDT

Good thing that we agree on one point.

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by usuck on 2009-11-21 11:55 EDT

sry cmc if u think the deck is about genesis u just dont understand it so i leave it with that

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