July 2008 T2 Deck lists: Rg Goyfsligh, Mono-Green Tokens, Project 420.5n

by bliblablub on 2008-05-07 09:33 EST

by Ro on 2008-05-07 09:35 EST

#2 woah

burn winning is fagilicious. How can it win with so much Primal Command and kitchen finks in the meta?

EDIT: After I took a closer look I notice it's not your standard burn.dec but still I'm surprised that it won.

by CyrusKiller on 2008-05-07 09:39 EST

It wons against me on Color Death game one and didn t hit 5th mana during 3 turn to combo off or command to get life and g2 i had to mulligan to 4 because of 3 hand without any land!

It's not GWR Ramp it's Project J

by Holzi on 2008-05-07 09:43 EST

#mtg.de ftw!!!

NICE JOB Nameless1 ^^

by Headbanger on 2008-05-07 09:54 EST

how does the combo works?

by CPal on 2008-05-07 09:57 EST

I lose another final 3 in a row go me x_x but well we were 1-1 and I got stuck on 2 lands when he was actually flood g2 but some 1/1s and a 2/1s > 0 creatures with 3 garrucks 2 triads and 1 overrun in hand x_____x oh well ggs

by sterbi on 2008-05-07 10:20 EST

#mg.de ftw!
GJ Nameless.

by Chico_Ze on 2008-05-07 10:36 EST

I doesn't matter, CPal is still the best damn player on m-l :/.

by KeySam on 2008-05-07 11:22 EST

Congratz to top 3. Nextime i wont misplay cpal, but i have to admit i underrated your deck a bit. GJ all
And yea 3. place deck is Project J or how you called it 420.5n.
KeySam

by TugaChampion on 2008-05-07 11:45 EST

Everlating Torment >>>> kitchen finks and primal command although Nameless doesn't play it in the SB which btw is asking for it.

by Hank333 on 2008-05-07 11:50 EST

Everlasting torment thoughts: RDW vs Kichen finks aggro. Turn 1 T Maniac, vs turn 1 llanawar elves. Turn 2 lash out swing vs turn 2 Wrens Vanquiser. Turn 3 everlasting torment vs Kithen Finks. Now they may not of gained life, but who will be ahead after that? Not the red deck, thats for sure. Everlasting torment doesn't "do" anything.

by gypsy on 2008-05-07 11:59 EST

how can you give examples of cards that arent played. everlasting torment isnt for aggro its for vs ramp. please stop saying random things when you dont know what youre talking about.

by Hank333 on 2008-05-07 12:07 EST

torments not that good. Is wasting turn 3 better vs Ramp?

by el_cuervito on 2008-05-07 12:27 EST

GWR Mana Ramp no proyect xD?

mono green tokens

4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 LLanowar Wastes
lol:P
gj CPal

by KeySam on 2008-05-07 13:35 EST

For those who didnt saw it yet, here is the discussion for the third place deck:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=112292

by poopascoopa on 2008-05-07 14:22 EST

I looked in my garbage can last night and saw better decks than these.

3 Rift Bolt?
2 Martyr of Ashes?

LOLOLOL

M-L is like Vegas: everyone get lucky now and then

by gypsy on 2008-05-07 14:34 EST

then why dont you show us how good you are and win a lot? please stfu you fucking noob

by Tewl on 2008-05-07 14:42 EST

CPal, when u were down 1-1 why didn't you just exit mwsplay and force a restart? You've done it vs. both me and my friend when u were dead on board.

by Ro on 2008-05-07 14:57 EST

Oh cpal doesn't cheat he's from costa rica and their internet connection line often gets eaten by monkeys.

by Ro on 2008-05-07 14:58 EST

BTW POOPASCOOPA IS 1600- JAJAJAJAJAJAJA

by Tewl on 2008-05-07 15:05 EST

well, when he is dead on board, it suddenly says 'Player lost' with no arrows, no taking control of cards, no glitching activity. He says his screen says 'Player lost' when so does mine, and both players can't have that message, one always gets error. Also, it happens to my friend in the same way.

by Perry on 2008-05-07 15:14 EST

if that happens judges should ask for logs/screenshots

by TugaChampion on 2008-05-07 16:44 EST

Hank333 and gypsy: Everlasting Torment IS good.

Burn, Rg, Rb, Red something have burn. Usually lots of it. The creatures are just meant to deal some damage early on and than serve as blockers to hold the bigger creatures while you finish them off with burn. Everlasting Torment not only stops life gain but it also makes all damage count as wither. So even little guys with leave permanent damage on bigger ones and also shrinks their power. Also Sulfurous Blast becomes way better. And another reason that Everlasting Torment > kitchen finks is that if you kill it it won't come back because he got some counters on it.

by natethetank on 2008-05-07 17:01 EST

by Perry on 2008-05-07 15:14 EDT

if that happens judges should ask for logs/screenshots

maybe screen shots but have you noticed that logs can be written into. i could easily change the end of the line to say player lost. if someone is that motivated to cheat then i think they would put in the extra effort to write in "player lost"

by natethetank on 2008-05-07 17:06 EST

by TugaChampion on 2008-05-07 16:44 EDT

"Hank333 and gypsy: Everlasting Torment IS good.

Burn, Rg, Rb, Red something have burn. Usually lots of it. The creatures are just meant to deal some damage early on and than serve as blockers to hold the bigger creatures while you finish them off with burn. Everlasting Torment not only stops life gain but it also makes all damage count as wither. So even little guys with leave permanent damage on bigger ones and also shrinks their power. Also Sulfurous Blast becomes way better. And another reason that Everlasting Torment > kitchen finks is that if you kill it it won't come back because he got some counters on it."

i will site gerryt here "Everlasting Torment is terrible. Just one season ago, I was playing UGW Blink in Nationals and had boarded up to four Riftwatcher and four Hierarch against a burn-based R/b deck. On the play game 2, he played turn 2 and turn 3 Rain of Gore. The game wasn�t close. Not only did he fail to put any pressure on me, but if I needed a quick life gain fix, I could just bounce the Rain of Gores with Venser/Cloudskate plus Blink. The Rain of Gores were basically a double mulligan.

Everlasting Torment is like Rain of Gore except strictly worse in the context for which you�re using it. Not only is it an extra mana, but it doesn�t actually deal them damage� it just prevents them from gaining four life off their Finks. "

by gypsy on 2008-05-07 17:52 EST

just because gerryt says its bad doesnt mean its bad. if you listen to pro players for everything how will you ever become good and come to your own conclusion.
everlasting torment is good. hes saying its bad by putting it in context with a card in a different format. its not amazing but its still a good card. stopping primal command and finks is good if your putting problem.

by TugaChampion on 2008-05-07 18:36 EST

Everlasting Torment is obv good. It's no Sulfuric Vortex but it alone is a solution to life gain, Cops and Story Circle and if you are playing burn it even helps against creatures.

I mean when there's a stupid card like Primal Command which says: "I win the game against aggro and I'm pretty bad against everything else" Everlasting Torment making them bounce it instead of gaining 7 life is almost the same has hitting them with 2 javelins!

And besides Reveillark which plays riftwing there's not much bounce besides the amazing Cryptic Command. Even if you bounce it and gain some life, you still have to play those bounce spells before you play the life gain and meanwhile you could be dead.

by Heikki on 2008-05-09 12:31 EST

I'm not a big fan of torment either. The problem is that the card doesn't do anything on its own.

The decks which use lifegain have maybe 4-6 cards to gain life; Finks, Watchers and Primal Command. I wouldn't sideboard 4 cards to stop 4-6 cards.

The only scenario where it helps is that you get to play it before 1st Fink, and they later play at least 1 more lifegain card.

Scenarios where it fails: they play finks before you play torment/ you draw multiples/ they draw 0-1 lifegain cards. Primal Commands second ablity ain't too bad either -> Megalith hurts..

Overall I feel that torment is too conditional to be really good. Maybe if some turbofog decks arise, or maybe in some another deck. The tempo loss is too big for RDW to overcome.

by SoggyToast on 2008-05-09 14:57 EST

If Finks is in play when you drop Torment, they lose the persist trigger and the two extra life. The extra blocker is worth 2-4 life in itself.

Torment also stops Primal from being a +7 which is worth 3 burn spells for RDW. If they are bouncing instead you lose 1 drawstep instead of 3.

Don't board it in against Reveillark because it will just get bounced and it dilutes the deck too much.

Also, because RDW's creatures are pretty small, the wither bonus is always helpful. Most people don't realize that your burn spells also gain wither as well, which is randomly relevant.

by SaCu on 2008-05-09 18:43 EST

I love RGoyf xD. Why Naturalize and not Krosan Grip ?

SaCu

by SaCu on 2008-05-09 18:43 EST

I love RGoyf xD. Why Naturalize and not Krosan Grip ?

SaCu

by Heikki on 2008-05-09 18:47 EST

Hmm, with Finks you have a point, Torment is good against them. However when they drop 1st Finks I have often stopped attacking (cept' Ram-Gang) and started aiming burns to head.

Against command you simplify things too much. Let's compare Torment vs. command with other 3 drops you have. Compared to F.Javelin you do 4, they gain 7 (-3). You'll also lose a topdeck, and possibly some dmg with your lands. Let's say a random topdeck is worth 2 dmg (-1) and you lose possibly 1-2 dmg (0/+1) from a land. So it's pretty even. Compared to Ram-Gang you lose 2 attacks so it might be even worse.

You also don't touch the scenarios where you td a torment later in the game, or you draw multiples. Or they draw only 0-1 lifegains.

The wither bonus ain't bad, mainly I think Wall of Roots here. It's so nice to bang maniac's head against it.

Well we have a ton of variables here and it's hard to find the right answer. Against a deck which plays 4x Finks, 3x Commands and 4x Wall of Roots I would propably bring Torment in. That being the case, I don't think we have enough of those decks to warrant torment a sb place..